Talk:Zealous Renewal
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Skill Updates
Edit
This was renamed to "Zealous Renewal". I'd change the article myself, but I'm not sure how. -Chris with Lime 26 October 2006, 16:35 (CDT)
NotesEdit
Does the AoE holy damage ignore armor?
- yes --
-- (s)talkpage 14:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I've always been confused as to how this skill works, but when I tested it out, I made the funny discovery as I put in the notes. When I would reapply and then prematurely end, I'd end up getting much less energy than I thought I would. And yes, I'm fairly confident it's at the end of the duration; I tried with both enchantment mods and without and ended prematurely at the same time, the enchantment modded ZR would cause less energy gain. Zaboomafoo 01:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- I'm confused...you're saying if you are already enchanted with ZR. You cast it again (before it expires) and then end it early (ie Signet of Pious Light etc), and the result is that you don't get as much energy as if it counted both applications of ZR as one long one?...in any case the note really says the same thing, that you only get energy gain at the end of the original first cast duration. Same as with AotL and other things like that. Entropy 01:36, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Actually, it technically will stack with a reapplication if it ends prematurely before the original application would end. (Just tested that one with an enchanting mod) Basically, from what I've gathered, the hit counter resets after the original duration would end normally. If you reapply and then immediately prematurely end, you'll still gain the benefit. If you wait until after the original duration expires (the typical 20 seconds), you'll have a smaller window of time to get hits on in the reapplication of the spell. (20 seconds - whatever time was still in the original duration = window of time) "If it's reapplied before it ends, you will not gain energy for the hits during the time of the previous duration if that previous duration expires" I guess is how you could put it, but I don't know if that's clear or less confusing. Zaboomafoo 02:07, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- It's just making my head hurt now, I think it would be better if I saw it explained visually or tested it out myself. I have no idea how to make those findings into a few short and sweet sentences worthy of a single bullet point. If you wanna edit the notes then that's fine, cleanup can always come later too. ;) Entropy 02:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- I doubt this helps, but reapplying the enchantment will cause the duration to reset, but the hit count won't reset until after the previous duration has expired. Thus, the effect is that you will have a smaller timeframe for "successful hitting" if you let the reapplied enchantment expire naturally. Zaboomafoo 02:19, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Barrage would work with this, right? It might be better than a zealous bowstring in some cases. ArcaneApostle 06:49, 17 January 2007 (CST)
- I doubt this helps, but reapplying the enchantment will cause the duration to reset, but the hit count won't reset until after the previous duration has expired. Thus, the effect is that you will have a smaller timeframe for "successful hitting" if you let the reapplied enchantment expire naturally. Zaboomafoo 02:19, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- It's just making my head hurt now, I think it would be better if I saw it explained visually or tested it out myself. I have no idea how to make those findings into a few short and sweet sentences worthy of a single bullet point. If you wanna edit the notes then that's fine, cleanup can always come later too. ;) Entropy 02:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Actually, it technically will stack with a reapplication if it ends prematurely before the original application would end. (Just tested that one with an enchanting mod) Basically, from what I've gathered, the hit counter resets after the original duration would end normally. If you reapply and then immediately prematurely end, you'll still gain the benefit. If you wait until after the original duration expires (the typical 20 seconds), you'll have a smaller window of time to get hits on in the reapplication of the spell. (20 seconds - whatever time was still in the original duration = window of time) "If it's reapplied before it ends, you will not gain energy for the hits during the time of the previous duration if that previous duration expires" I guess is how you could put it, but I don't know if that's clear or less confusing. Zaboomafoo 02:07, 9 January 2007 (CST)
TestingEdit
All right, here are my results, all done with no IAS and using a scythe:
- In 20 seconds, attacking immediately after using ZR for the entire duration, you will have hit 11 times and gain 11 energy.
- 20-.75=19.25/1.75=11.000 attacks, thus 11 hits.
- In 24 seconds (enchanting mod), attacking immediately after using ZR for the entire duration, you will hit 13 times and gain 13 energy.
- 24-.75=23.25/1.75=13.286, thus 13 attacks
- Casting a 24 second ZR and waiting 15 seconds without attacking, and then immediately reapplying another 24 second ZR and attacking immediately after for the entire duration, you will hit 13 times but only recieve 9 energy.
- 24 second duration - 15 second recharge = 9 seconds left over. Put in the aftercast and cast time, and that's 9-.75-.75 or 7.5 seconds. The next duration, 24 seconds, will have 7.5 seconds of it used for the original hit counter, which will be reset after those seconds are up. 24-7.5=16.5 seconds. 16.5/1.75=9.428 hits, or 9 energy.
- Casting a 20 second ZR and waiting 15 seconds without attacking, and then immediately reapplying another 20 second ZR and attacking immediately after for the entire duration, you will hit 11 times but only recieve 9 energy.
- Math: 20-15= 5 seconds. 5-.75-.75=3.5 seconds. 20-3.5=16.5 seconds. 16.5/1.75=9.428 hits, or 9 energy.
- Casting a 20 second ZR and immediately attacking until it recharges, upon which you immediately reapply another 20 second ZR and immediately return to attaacking for the entire duration, you will hit a total of 19 times; 8 before the recast and 11 after, but still only recieve 9 energy.
- Math: 15-.75=14.25/1.75=8.143 attacks. The other part is the same math as above.
- Casting a 24 second ZR and immediately attacking until it recharges, upon which you immediately reapply another 24 second ZR and immediately return to attacking for the entire duration, you will hit a total of 21 times, 8 reapplication and 13 after, but only recieve 9 energy.
- Math has all been covered in above sections. These last two tests prove the non-stacking effect and that somewhere the hit count restarts, but it obviously does not restart on reapplication
- Casting a 24 second ZR, switching to a non-enchanting scythe, waiting through the 15 second recharge and immediately reapplying a 20 second ZR and then attacking immediately for the entire duration, you will hit 11 times but only gain 7 energy.
- Math: 24-15=9 seconds. 9-.75-.75=7.5 seconds. 20-7.5=12.5 seconds, 12.5/1.75=7.143 attacks, or 7 hits.
- Casting a 20 second ZR, switching to an enchanting scythe, waiting through the 15 second recharge and immediately reapplying a 24 second ZR and then attacking immediately for the entire duration, you will hit 13 times but only gain 11 energy.
- Math: 20-15=5 seconds. 5-.75-.75=3.5 seconds. 24-3.5=20.5 seconds. 20.5/1.75=11.714 attacks, or 11 hits.
- These last two tests lead me to believe the hit count restarts after the original duration has expired.
- Math: 20-15=5 seconds. 5-.75-.75=3.5 seconds. 24-3.5=20.5 seconds. 20.5/1.75=11.714 attacks, or 11 hits.
Anyway, I'd put that in a chart but I don't know how to with wiki-code and I have class now. Hope that's readable. Zaboomafoo 10:43, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Consider using as a non-derivsh Primary, possibly as an assassin, since it's duration and energy effect are unlinked.
- Assuming this is a comment on my testing, I went ahead and used an A/D using a scythe (Daggers = dual strike = more math than needed) and there was no difference in results. The energy gain for ZR appears separately from the Mysticism bonus, so I can't think of a conceivable reason for why one's primary should effect this at all in terms of energy gain. If you're confused as to the purpose of my testing, I was testing to show that constant maintaining of ZR is not benefitial at all (for energy gaining purposes). Logically, the counter that determines the number of hits you recieve should reset on recast of ZR (if you are still under the previous cast's effect). However, this is not the case, as the experiments showed that the counter did not reset until several seconds after the recast. The math was done to support my idea that the counter resets when the enchantment would've expired normally, as the calculated number for energy gain was equal to the experimental number of energy gained. Zaboomafoo 17:14, 11 January 2007 (CST)
- Consider using as a non-derivsh Primary, possibly as an assassin, since it's duration and energy effect are unlinked.
I asume it triggers on multiple hit scythe attacks right? --— Hyprodimus Prime 
03:15, 19 January 2007 (CST)
- Yes. I imagine it also works with Barrage, Hundred Blades, Cyclone Axe, Triple Chop, etc. Zaboomafoo 16:29, 21 January 2007 (CST)
- Yeah this+ Barrage would allow you to continously barrage without energy problems and even through in some interupts...--Devils Apprentice 09:54, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
energy management Edit
i used to use this skill as my main energy management, maybe i'm just unlucky, but i rarely hit more than 1 enemy at a time, and whenever i went to a grp that looked close enough to hit multiple enemies 9 time out of 10 they moved too far away right b4 my attack hits. in other words the fact that i only get 11+3 (the 3 is from mysticism) back doesn't seem to me like this skill is worth all the praise that i hear from ppl in game. i like dervs a lot but, from what i've seen the only reliable energy management they can get is zealous sweep+zealous vow, am i just unlucky at hitting multiple foes, or does energy management mean constantly waiting for my energy to recover?
