Talk:Secondary professions for a Ritualist

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Need to add Rt Ranger Spikers. Readem (talk*contribs) 16:47, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

How on earth does a Ritualist/Dervish not a good combination? This combo makes a GREAT spirit warrior.

In the same way a W/E makes a great battle mage. — Skuld 02:55, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

Not this again....--Deathwing 11:14, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

You have no idea Skuld, just how great a W/E Nuker is. Armor of a tank, AoE of a Ele. SImple as that, absolutely flawless. Readem (talk*contribs) 13:33, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

No mending though, how could you survive? --DEATHWING 14:11, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

energy... Dstroyer 666 14:05, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

Contents 1 delete 2 Deletion controversy 3 Some quick notes 4 Spirit's Strength 5 Warwick's changes 6 Vocal Was Sogolon; Rangers have shouts?!?

[edit] delete

see Category talk:Profession combinations#why delete --Honorable Sarah 22:36, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

This should not be happening to any of the profession combination related sites, because:

-it can give new insight to old players.

-it can give a lot of valuable information to newcomers. *n

-it has a nice overview of all types of combos. ok not all but quite a few.

-agreeably: these sections are extremely useful, and whether or not they are 100% valid, like much of this site they are here to provide information and help, not stand up in a court of dork law

this should NOT be happening. Mister Muscolo 13:25, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

The problem is...some people believe that they should only list the best combinations possible. Some people believe they should list every possibility. This causes a disagreement and total chaos with reverts and such. The problem is, these articles rely on opinion. Opinions vary from person to person. Maybe person A thinks that Troll Unguent owns on a ritualist, while person B thinks that Troll Unguent is a worthless skill on a ritualist. Person A adds the note because they think its good, Person B removes the note because it is "retarded shit". Person A adds the note again, person B removes the "retarded shit" again. Person A is offended because person B removed his note repeated times, Person A asks Person B about it, Person B calls Person A retarded, and an argument starts. Now repeat this for every combination of every skill in the game with every profession. Not pretty. --DEATHWING 13:36, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

Easy way to solve that, a simple question: "why is it good/bad?" — Skuld 13:37, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

I believe this site should contain information about those attributes and skills of the secondary profession that combine well with the attributes and skills of the primary class. A good (yet still missing) example is the Rt/R combination: the skill Barrage removes preparations but may profit from weapon spells like Warmonger's Weapon. -- Taiki 18:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

You mean Splinter Weapon, and that's usually taken on the Ranger as R/Rt anyway (T/C) 21:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

No, i meant Warmonger's Weapon and I intentionally did not write about Splinter Weapon. Everyone knows Splinter Weapon, but Warmonger's Weapon should trigger multiple times too when used with barrage. And especially on mobs of casters this surely can be a nice thing. ;) Ankh Mhutin 22:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion controversy

While I realize that these pages are prone to bias and dispute, I feel like even the disputes, properly handled (i.e., hashed out on the discussion page and publicly viewable), provide insight here. With the builds section terminated, these pages are a last bastion for ideas for those who, like me, are genuinely indecisive and curious. I know better than to base any character on something I read here, and I think it's fair to expect that from everyone else. To that end, I think a policy of caveat emptor is the proper approach to these pages.

I want to see opinions from people; while I realize a wiki is not the same thing as a forum, its accessibility and the prominence of this resource in particular suggest to me that a conflux of opinions here is inevitable and desirable. I say that to say it's worth the trouble to have information on such things as "Secondary professions for a ____", even if no consensus is available. I'm not looking for an authoritative consensus on what's good and what's not. There's no such thing. What I want is a collection of opinions on the subject in a brief outline format--and that's what's here.

I don't care if Troll Unguent is good or bad for a Rt, but someone brought it up, and I'm intelligent enough to weigh the pros and cons whenever I should decide to make a Rt/Rng or Rng/Rt.

If these pages need to be heavily monitored--fine; I'm happy to assist with that. But whether they do or not, they need to stay. No information resource can hope to maintain itself if it's not willing to allow itself to promulgate the arguably biased opinions of the community it supports.

You would be better off making your arguments at Category_talk:Profession_combinations#why_delete, as that's where the primary discussion and the attempt to reach concensus is taking place. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:06, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

[edit] Some quick notes

First, it says that Glyph of Renewal doesn't work with Binding Rituals, and then right under that says that Glyph of Lesser Energy does. Not having played a Rt/E, I wouldn't know, so somebody confirm or deny that it is supposed to be there.

Second, I am uncertain how Spawning Power inherently makes minions less effective in a Rt/N build. It boosts health, but it doesn't make them weaker. The fact that Ritualists cannot use Death Magic runes or headgear would be a more appropriate premise for that conclusion.

Third, I don't personally edit articles. Ta ta! 24.196.94.255 19:24, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Fixed, sort of. Wording may be awkward on the spawning power note. --DEATHWING 19:39, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

[edit] Spirit's Strength

Is Warrior really the best secondary for this? Daggers get more attacks per second, scythes work against multiple targets and bows, spears and caster weapons allow you to attack from a distance. Yes, Warriors have some nice defensive skills, but relying on Warrior defensive skills (or gaining more than 8 AL from a shield) requires investment in four attributes, while relying on Ritualist defensive skills such as Resilient Weapon or Weapon of Warding only requires 3 attributes. -- Gordon Ecker 18:28, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

IAS. Readem (talk*contribs) 18:30, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

I've added it to the note. -- Gordon Ecker 18:56, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

[edit] Warwick's changes

Warwick , I don't understand why you deleted several lines from the article - please explain what's the idea behind that! What's wrong with the idea of increasing melee damage by Spirit's Strength and IAS? What's wrong about reducing spirit recharge times with Serpent's Quickness? What's wrong with enahncing damage of volley and the likes with Spirit's Strength? Ankh Mhutin 21:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Because things that are better than other things should be run over things that are worse than them. A scythe is better for melee with spirit's strength, a spear better for range. Serpent's Quickness is, imo, dumb on anything not a ranger. — Warw/Wick 21:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

NO. FUCK OFF. BAD IDEAS ARE BAD. Lord of all tyria 21:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ritual Lord or Reclaim Essence or Soul Twisting are superior to SQ; if you're going to use Barrage/Volley, take Splinter Weapon. (T/C) 21:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

SQ has way too much downtime to be of use for most things, but it works great with AWS --Gimmethegepgun 21:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ghostly Haste is far superior. (T/C) 22:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Strippable, shatterbait, need to cast spirit BEFORE using it, takes time to cast, enchantments are for pussies, yay resilient weapon! --Gimmethegepgun 22:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

SQ is just gay. Entropy sed I could remove, U HAZ NO RITE 2 OMG BANBANBAN. SQ is gay on anything not ranger, so just.. remove, plx. — Warw/Wick 22:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Go prove that SQ ISN'T great with AWS. Ah, the good old Build section mentality... "it doesn't scream suck out loud but I think it sucks anyway and so will not try it. VOTETHUMBSDOWN HAHA!" --Gimmethegepgun 22:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Or uh, what it actually is.. "it screams suck out loud but that guy says it dont. VOTETHUMBSDOWNLOL!". — Warw/Wick 22:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Please. Go prove to me that it sucks then. --Gimmethegepgun 22:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Following that rationale, Mending is good. — Warw/Wick 22:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

18 health per 3 seconds for 1 energy per 3 seconds. In 15 seconds, the time it takes to use 5 energy, that's 90 heal. For 5 energy. 10 up front. Over 15 seconds. Also shatterbait and used by Warriors, thus halving their energy regen --Gimmethegepgun 22:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Why nothing about Rt/R Volley + Splinter + SS awesomeness? AoE, perhaps not as powerful as the dervish, but you can attack at distance (lol @ squiahy in frontlines), and you save one PvE skill slot by not needing Great Dwarf Armor. --Alf's Hitman 22:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

@Gimme - I HAVE used SQ, and it sucked balls compared to Swiftness/Ghostly Haste. Shatterbait in PvE? Lol. AWS in PvP? Lol. (T/C) 23:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Go AB as resto rit with AWS --Gimmethegepgun 23:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I said PvP. (T/C) 23:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ahem: WTF DOES AWS STAND FOR?!?!?--îğá†ħŕášħ 23:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Unlimited Energy Management (T/C) 23:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Nature Rituals I'm failing to see the synergy that merits taking skill with a 60s recharge (all but 3 of the Nature Rituals, and one of those is elite, one is PvE only, and last one is Frozen Soil). (T/C) 13:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

what's the problem with a 60s recharge on spirit builds with Ritual Lord, Soul Twisting or Reclaim Essence? On the other hand there are nice synergies like Frozen Soil + Lively Was Naomei or Infuriating Heat + Soothing -- Ankh Mhutin 18:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, while it's true that nature rituals gain health from spawning power, I don't think they really benefit a whole lot from it. They have huge range and typically stay out of combat. and most last longer than recharge (with moderate investment), and dont' have to be recast a lot. --JonTheMon 19:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

My thoughts on nature rituals. Useful ones; favourable winds, edge of extinction, toxicity, laceration (in the right place, gimmicks), nature's renewal, tranquility. All of which are better on the ranger primary. No exceptions. Lord of all tyria 19:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought it would still be good to mention the health-bonus through Spawning Power. Anyway, the more important aspect is that many Ritualist skills would also benefit from nature rituals, such as Essence Strike, Spirit Light, Spirit Light Weapon, Signet of Spirits. -- Ankh Mhutin 19:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The benefit is too small to matter, ranger runes are going to be more useful. In terms of efficiency (serious point in pve) its better to have a nature ritual on a ranger, then the rit bring w/e skills that need it. I dislike adding notes about possible combinations that, while entirely possible, aren't very good. Lord of all tyria 19:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I still don't see the problem. Many ritualist skills demand a spirit. And a nature ritual may be very useful in several locations (e.g. Frozen Soil). So if I as a ranger know, the party wants a certain nature ritual and I know I need a spirit... why shouldn't I add the spirit to the build? -- Ankh Mhutin 20:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Attribute distribution. Most times, a ranger will either have runes or skills related to that attribute equipped already. --JonTheMon 20:04, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

When do you ever *need* frozen soil? Also, bloodsong has a shorter recharge, is in a good attrib line for rits and so allows you to win pve more. In pvp, this discussion is pointless, since rangers use the spirits that they need. Lord of all tyria 20:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Bloodsong/Pain have half the recharge and provide an active benefit. Destruction is the fastest recharging ritual so it is good when you are on the go. Life is similar. Signet of Spirits etc. also means you cannot use those other elite to reduce the long recharge times. You also forget that nature rituals affect enemies as well, so taking Favorable Winds for example is double edged sword in some place. Frozen Soil + Lively Was Naomei is only useful in about...3 situations that I can think of, which is FFF, one particular quest, and one mission where it's not essential even. (It's also used in a few pvp gimmicks, but it doesn't matter if it's on a rit then or not) Infuriating Heat requires Soothing to counter, which both eats your elite slot and also costs a ton of energy. You'd be better off with Weapon of Fury ... especially because it doesn't matter if your Monks for example are gaining 2x adrenaline. (T/C) 22:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vocal Was Sogolon; Rangers have shouts?!?

It occured to me that this skill( Vocal was Sogolon ) can also be used to increase duration of pet-shouts. The only one this has any real affect with is Otyugh's Cry, but it allows for perpetual maintenence of the shout. I was considering combining this with Enraged Lunge on a Rt/R or R/Rt to make a heavily armored pet that deals a heft amount of damage. Any thoughts?Lord Twitchiopolis 17:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Enduring Harmony would be better for that. Set 50% addition, no loss of weapon, and less energy cost. Less maintainable, but it's only needed every minute or so anyway. So R/P would be better than Rt/R or R/Rt for Beast master.--El_Nazgir 18:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)